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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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podcast episode number 413 for the

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eighteenth of sep tember 2016 Richard

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Saunders here with you from soggy gray

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cloudy Sydney Australia coming up on

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this week's show we catch up with some

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old friends of the skeptics own first of

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all the delightful sharon hill sharon

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hill from doubtful news com sharon can

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be filling us in updating us bringing us

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latest news from doubtful news and will

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also discuss the merits of ghost hunting

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goes to is ghost busting all that sort

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of thing coming up at the top of the

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show the incomparable sharon hill

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following that it's a very concerning

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story we're bringing you thanks to the

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reasonable Hank blog about nurses

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registered nurses and midwives who are

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also active X and they're not shy about

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it these nurses and midwives are happy

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to post up on blogs and Facebook groups

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anti-vaccination memes and so on and

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we're going to be reading out some of

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the bizarre wacky and crazy memes

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anti-vaccination memes these people

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circulate or recirculate regurgitate one

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might say then to round off the show our

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old friend men radford it's going to be

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joining us to talk about a very strange

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story evil clowns now Ben's got a book

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out about naughty evil bad clowns but I

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thought we'd have a little talk about

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this because it's something that's just

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totally bizarre mysterious evil looking

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bad clowns running about the countryside

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up to no good it is a strange story and

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Ben and I will also be discussing the

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latest photograph from Loch Ness I don't

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know whether you've seen it its a

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spoiler alert it's clearly it's clearly

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a small group of seals swimming about

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and playing about but this has been

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touted as one of the best photographs of

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the Loch Ness monster well touted by the

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media clickbait I suppose of

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bit of a story but it's an interesting

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case this new photograph from Loch Ness

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more or less because it shows to us

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clearly clearly what's really going on

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with many photographs in the past which

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left and doubtedly those of seals

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swimming about Loch Ness anyway all that

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and more with men radford to round off

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the show before we get to that a couple

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of notes from me I've recently been

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tinkering with the skeptics own website

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at skeptic zone TV and if you click on

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the link at the top of the page that

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says episodes quick which I'm doing now

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you get the standard lips in list of

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episodes you can scroll down and go

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directly to the year or the month that

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you're interested in scrolling down now

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goes all the way of course 2 2008 when

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the show started but more importantly I

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think right near the top of the episodes

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link the episodes page which comes up

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there's a keyword search and that works

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very well if for example you want to

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find out all the times I interviewed my

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good friend Richard Wiseman for example

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if you type Wiseman Richard Wiseman or

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just Wiseman into the keyword search hit

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the search button up comes every episode

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where we've had the pleasure of

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interviewing Richard Wiseman or James

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Randi if you put in James Randi up comes

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all the interviews with james randi

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going back over the years Eugenie Scott

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maybe if you want to listen to her

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interviews it's it's own it's a nice

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feature which I haven't utilized until

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now but I'm glad it's there stay tuned

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at the end of the episode I have a few

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more little notes and announcements to

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make but 1 i'll share with you right now

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is next week's episode of the skeptic

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zone is going to be early it actually

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it'll be a few days early it might even

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come out on the thursday or the friday i

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think at this stage quite early because

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in a few days i am interviewing ben

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goldacre who's coming out courtesy of

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think ink to do a tour of australia and

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new zealand and in order for us

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kept exam listeners to get the full

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benefit before they see Ben Goldacre I

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will be pulling out the show a bit

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earlier next week or this week later

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this week I should say so yes look out

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possibly Thursday or something like that

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for an early episode of the skeptic zone

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs have some nice smoked salmon

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with avocado on toast drizzled that is a

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nice word drizzled with a little bit of

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sesame seed oil sesame oil hmm why I

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enjoy that and I will I hope you enjoy

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and joining me now on the line all the

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way from a place I'd like to visit I've

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heard it's a bit dull I'd still like to

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visit it just at Harrisburg Pennsylvania

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it's sharon hill hello hi Richard how

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are you I'm doing really well I'm doing

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really well and no I have not been to

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that part of the United States I've not

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been to Washington DC or New York or

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Pennsylvania it can't be that dull is it

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really that it's pretty dull what they

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say about Pennsylvania is well we have

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Philadelphia on one side Pittsburgh on

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the other and you know Alabama in

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between basically because there's

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nothing there but farmland and yeah

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that's about it I'm sure it has a beauty

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and a wonder all of its own let's show

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and muster everywhere now I guess when

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you look for but no it's about time we

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caught up with you Sharon ah I skipped

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exam listeners are well aware of what

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you do because I regularly play the

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doubtful news promo with that

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interesting riddle music how is

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listeners who haven't heard it and don't

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know can you tell me a little bit about

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the history of doubtful news why you did

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it and how's it going at the moment

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right I started it oh gee um 2011 or

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something like that I can't even

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remember now it was so long ago and I

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started it up as a way to talk about

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weird news in the media that the media

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was sort of falling down on these

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stories they weren't being critical they

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weren't digging into them they weren't

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they weren't giving information that

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could help people decide whether these

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stories were true or not they were just

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sort of playing up the hype and i found

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that kind of annoying and i was able to

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rewrite the stories into a blog form and

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add a little bit more information so

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people would start maybe thinking a

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little bit more critically and deeper

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about these questionable claims and then

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they could decide for themselves if

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maybe the media was being a little bit

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too generous and

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and credulous so that's why I called it

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doubtful news and it went on for a

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number of years and then we took a break

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back in April of this year and I thought

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that was going to be the end of it

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actually I was pretty worn out there's

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there's a lot of weird news and we it

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was very difficult to keep up and you

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can get uh pretty jaded trying to oh yes

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of course about this Yuri's all the time

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it's never ending it really know and it

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can be frustrating so I needed a break

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and then in june i updated a story about

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a guy who thought he found a Bigfoot

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skull fossil and i thought oh this is

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what I do this is what I do I talk about

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these weird stories and I can't help it

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so within the past month I've started to

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put up some new stories since middle

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August and we've started to keep the

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site active again and decided that maybe

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some interesting new projects are coming

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down the road pretty soon well I'm

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pleased to know that you're you're back

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in the swing of things so to speak what

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are some of the stories that have caught

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your attention apart from that one

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recently well gee I think it's the

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official silly season isn't it we have

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enough going on in the US here with our

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crazy election but there's these stories

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that are coming out in the news because

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perhaps it's a slow news day otherwise

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and the bigger stories that what's going

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on right now as we speak are crazy

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clowns appearing in North and South

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Carolina and scaring children this

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sounds like something that been read

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through would be interested in he wrote

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a great article about it and after I

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read that article and then it keeps

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going as you know there's there's

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contagion with these stories then other

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people start thinking that they see

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these clowns and right now there's a

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couple things also going on in the media

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with regards to clowns there's a new

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movie or two coming out about evil

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clowns Ben's

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bad clowns is is recently released and I

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think that people just have clowns on

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their minds and the funny part is that

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for the past week or so that these

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clowns have been appearing no one's

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taken a picture or a video that could be

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authenticated which is weird because

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they're in residential areas and

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everybody has a cell phone and lots of

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places have security cameras or

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surveillance cameras why aren't these

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clowns showing up are they phantoms are

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they introduced you know having a good

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old time with these stories it's it's

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kind of a mystery clowns I haven't well

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that one hasn't made it to Australia yet

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I guess but you make a very good point

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about the cell phones and everybody has

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cell phones and this is the point I made

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a few months back on the skeptic zone in

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relation to UFOs of course if there's

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all this paranormal activity going along

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be it UFOs if we can call that

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paranormal or ghosts or evil clowns and

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there are so many are there are so many

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people out there with good quality

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cameras on their person all the time why

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are we flooded with incredible high

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definition pictures of the paranormal

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right well I have a personal account of

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this of why that could be I was staying

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at a cabin on a ridge in West Virginia a

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few weeks ago it was a summer night and

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it was very warm out and I was out on

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the deck and it was dark probably about

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ten pm and it was very loud with summer

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insects so I couldn't hear anything but

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these insects and I'm looking out at the

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stars and I see this very very bright

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light not not too distant and it's

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extremely bright and it's moving very

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slowly up down and sideways with in a

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very small area and it took me about two

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minutes of looking at it trying to

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figure out what it was before i realize

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i had the ipad in my hand and I hadn't

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picked it up and took a picture uh-huh

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yes I was too involved in observing and

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by the time I realized that and got the

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Canberra

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open and pointed it it was beyond the

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trees and I couldn't see it anymore it

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turns out that it was probably a drone

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that the it appeared that the neighbors

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may have had a drone that they flew at

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night the next morning I heard a strange

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buzzing sound that sounded like a drone

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and I think that that's what it probably

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was it would make sense and other people

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have suggested that to me as well so

270
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that was my failure to catch a UFO well

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I think we're going to hear more about

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this in the future as more and more

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drones and being flown around and

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especially at night we have the lights

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on them but still some of them are made

276
00:13:09,710 --> 00:13:07,080
to look like UFOs even brain but i have

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i have another story oh yeah I have

278
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:11,850
another story in the news and this came

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from your part of the world who where

280
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somebody took a cell phone video of what

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they say was uh by the same name is

282
00:13:27,010 --> 00:13:24,930
Tiger I have seen that it was on our

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news reports here last night an

284
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incredibly grainy and patch ie picture

285
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of something that looks like a something

286
00:13:38,510 --> 00:13:35,480
moving somewhere it's very hard to tell

287
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:38,520
isn't it amazing again such poor quality

288
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:40,890
when we have these great instruments

289
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right in our hands so yeah unfortunately

290
00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:46,710
videos photographs they're practically

291
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worthless anymore because of the

292
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:51,300
manipulation but man we all we had to

293
00:13:55,190 --> 00:13:53,370
learn how to use them better well that's

294
00:13:57,230 --> 00:13:55,200
true I wouldn't say they're worthless I

295
00:13:58,970 --> 00:13:57,240
mean if something did happen I mean if

296
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there really was a thylacine and

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somebody had their wits about them they

298
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:05,550
could get just absolutely mind snapping

299
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evidence of such a thing or whatever

300
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:11,640
other odd phenomenon there might be

301
00:14:15,470 --> 00:14:13,680
about but just getting back to the

302
00:14:18,260 --> 00:14:15,480
website itself i'm curious over the

303
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years do you have you had much feedback

304
00:14:22,070 --> 00:14:20,640
from people who have got a great deal of

305
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:22,080
benefit out of your sight maybe

306
00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:25,920
journalists or other people sure i have

307
00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:28,380
had a lot of the audience say that they

308
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:30,600
just loved the site because they were

309
00:14:35,809 --> 00:14:32,850
sick of seeing garbage on the news

310
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:35,819
and I've had a couple professors contact

311
00:14:41,629 --> 00:14:37,290
me and say they use it in their

312
00:14:44,780 --> 00:14:41,639
classrooms to refer their their students

313
00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:44,790
to this type of story in comparison to

314
00:14:50,540 --> 00:14:47,910
the regular media stories I even had one

315
00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:50,550
professor a friend of the the website

316
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:53,430
tell me there really is nothing else on

317
00:14:58,939 --> 00:14:56,130
the web like doubtful news because it

318
00:15:01,160 --> 00:14:58,949
covered such an array of subject areas

319
00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:01,170
it's just huge all kinds of subject

320
00:15:06,249 --> 00:15:03,529
areas from alt med to conspiracy to

321
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:06,259
crypto zoology and paranormal stuff

322
00:15:14,930 --> 00:15:11,279
which is it's difficult to do for one

323
00:15:17,300 --> 00:15:14,940
person so it is kind of a lot to juggle

324
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:17,310
but I love this kind of stuff and I'm

325
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:19,170
trying to get some good information out

326
00:15:24,050 --> 00:15:21,120
there may be information that people

327
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:24,060
won't see any place else and I think

328
00:15:28,819 --> 00:15:26,130
that the audience appreciates that and I

329
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:28,829
do get some journalists who will see the

330
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:32,130
story and contact me and we also have a

331
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:34,880
little circle here in the US of

332
00:15:39,499 --> 00:15:37,410
independent researchers that if we don't

333
00:15:42,170 --> 00:15:39,509
have the capability to talk about a

334
00:15:45,290 --> 00:15:42,180
subject we will pass the journalists off

335
00:15:48,050 --> 00:15:45,300
to one of our friends who has expertise

336
00:15:49,879 --> 00:15:48,060
in that area that's brilliant i did such

337
00:15:51,530 --> 00:15:49,889
a good thing to know that there is such

338
00:15:52,850 --> 00:15:51,540
a resource out there not just for

339
00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:52,860
journalists of course but just for the

340
00:15:57,139 --> 00:15:55,110
general population who are curious and

341
00:15:58,759 --> 00:15:57,149
interested in like would like another

342
00:16:00,920 --> 00:15:58,769
take on some of the strange and bizarre

343
00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:00,930
stories we get out there but when you're

344
00:16:05,569 --> 00:16:03,870
not busy pouring over your you're

345
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:05,579
doubtful news you're actually getting

346
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:07,199
out there and doing things and i

347
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:08,880
understand that recently you went to

348
00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:12,810
washington DC to hunt for a ghost well

349
00:16:17,210 --> 00:16:15,209
I'm a member of the National Capital

350
00:16:18,650 --> 00:16:17,220
Area skeptics i'm a board member with

351
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:18,660
them and that's the washington d.c

352
00:16:25,639 --> 00:16:20,370
skeptics group it's one of the oldest in

353
00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:25,649
the US and we are planning to run a skep

354
00:16:30,679 --> 00:16:28,500
tour on ghosts for around Halloween time

355
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:30,689
so i decided to go down and check out

356
00:16:36,999 --> 00:16:34,050
the commercial ghost tour and the tour

357
00:16:39,679 --> 00:16:37,009
was of lafayette square which is the

358
00:16:42,250 --> 00:16:39,689
park area it's called presidents park

359
00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:42,260
it's right between the White House and a

360
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:45,180
block up Constitution Avenue there's

361
00:16:48,910 --> 00:16:46,250
pennsylvania avenue

362
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:48,920
there's a park in there and it's

363
00:16:53,380 --> 00:16:51,440
surrounded by there now government

364
00:16:55,090 --> 00:16:53,390
buildings but they the facades look like

365
00:16:58,860 --> 00:16:55,100
houses and at one time they were houses

366
00:17:02,410 --> 00:16:58,870
and many of them are supposedly haunted

367
00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:02,420
so I I went on this ghost tour and

368
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:04,370
around lafayette square and i listened

369
00:17:11,620 --> 00:17:07,280
to her stories and I was just so

370
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:11,630
unimpressed now I had been a ghost her

371
00:17:18,699 --> 00:17:16,640
before but this one was was worse now I

372
00:17:22,990 --> 00:17:18,709
have to laugh because I have been on a

373
00:17:26,140 --> 00:17:23,000
number of ghost tours myself and they

374
00:17:27,699 --> 00:17:26,150
range from the amusing and fun where

375
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:27,709
they don't take themselves too seriously

376
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:30,410
and you learn some history along the way

377
00:17:35,740 --> 00:17:33,410
which is good today e to the cringing

378
00:17:37,420 --> 00:17:35,750
Lee pathetic where it's just here's

379
00:17:38,860 --> 00:17:37,430
another spot and here's another story

380
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,870
here's another spot and here's another

381
00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:41,120
story take a photograph now with your

382
00:17:45,250 --> 00:17:42,710
flesh and you'll see ghosts orbs and

383
00:17:48,610 --> 00:17:45,260
it's just exactly that's exactly how it

384
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:48,620
was was it was it she was like orbs are

385
00:17:52,780 --> 00:17:50,450
psychic energy take as many pictures as

386
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:52,790
you can because you'll see them it

387
00:17:58,330 --> 00:17:55,730
really is you know it really is pathetic

388
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,340
and sometimes believers get a little bit

389
00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:00,080
upset with skeptics or naturally enough

390
00:18:04,180 --> 00:18:02,270
and then they'll say are you skeptics

391
00:18:05,470 --> 00:18:04,190
are so mean and you're picking on us and

392
00:18:07,540 --> 00:18:05,480
they'll play that what we call the

393
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:07,550
victim card but sometimes we just have

394
00:18:12,460 --> 00:18:10,100
to come out out with it and just say

395
00:18:16,450 --> 00:18:12,470
what's going on some things is just

396
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:16,460
truly cringe-worthy cringe-worthy and

397
00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:19,520
pathetic yeah but what I got out of this

398
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:22,510
ghost her was the state of ghost tours

399
00:18:27,610 --> 00:18:25,520
and right now and it really is not worth

400
00:18:30,940 --> 00:18:27,620
your money for most of these there

401
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:30,950
probably are some good ones I haven't

402
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,510
the ones that I've been on have not been

403
00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:34,640
particularly great so we're gonna try a

404
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:37,310
different spin on a ghost tour and I

405
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:39,890
think it'll be fun no I would love to

406
00:18:44,380 --> 00:18:42,710
join you on that who knows maybe when

407
00:18:46,780 --> 00:18:44,390
they invent the transporter from Star

408
00:18:49,420 --> 00:18:46,790
Trek I can join you it's a little bit

409
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:49,430
difficult but also I understand that

410
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:54,050
you're working on a book right a few

411
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:56,810
years ago I got a master's degree in

412
00:18:59,620 --> 00:18:58,640
science in the public it was a science

413
00:19:04,300 --> 00:18:59,630
education

414
00:19:07,420 --> 00:19:04,310
degree and the focus of my master's

415
00:19:11,050 --> 00:19:07,430
thesis was paranormal investigators and

416
00:19:12,670 --> 00:19:11,060
how they say they use science so I'm

417
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:12,680
working that up into a book right now

418
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:17,450
I'm at the heavy editing stage and so

419
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:19,850
it's going to be a while longer but I

420
00:19:25,180 --> 00:19:21,530
hope that this gets out there and

421
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:25,190
hopefully it's it's my goal that real

422
00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:27,170
paranormal investigators of all stripes

423
00:19:33,550 --> 00:19:30,380
ghost hunters UFO seekers Bigfoot

424
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:33,560
hunters they read it and they see that

425
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:36,050
we can do investigation a different way

426
00:19:39,610 --> 00:19:37,970
we don't have to pretend to play to play

427
00:19:41,620 --> 00:19:39,620
scientists we don't have to say we're

428
00:19:44,830 --> 00:19:41,630
doing all the scientific stuff we could

429
00:19:47,020 --> 00:19:44,840
be more rational and maybe actually get

430
00:19:50,350 --> 00:19:47,030
some good information out of these

431
00:19:54,190 --> 00:19:50,360
investigations for a change really good

432
00:19:57,010 --> 00:19:54,200
luck yeah yeah I'm still at the

433
00:20:00,040 --> 00:19:57,020
optimistic stage yeah well in my in my

434
00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:00,050
experience and I've seen this in a

435
00:20:05,230 --> 00:20:03,020
number of the new age festivals I go to

436
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:05,240
or the paranormal conventions they'll be

437
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:08,240
the ghost hunters there they normally

438
00:20:14,530 --> 00:20:10,880
there are there are groups of them like

439
00:20:16,450 --> 00:20:14,540
like clubs and they almost universally

440
00:20:20,610 --> 00:20:16,460
will have black t-shirts with some sort

441
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:20,620
of ghost logo on them and they will have

442
00:20:25,330 --> 00:20:22,490
where I've seen them they'll have the

443
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:25,340
table display and there are all sorts of

444
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:28,400
scientific looking instruments and

445
00:20:33,610 --> 00:20:32,210
detectors which of course I as Brian

446
00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:33,620
Dunning reminds us and one of these

447
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:35,390
sceptile episodes it's simply just

448
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:37,490
laughable that they don't they can't

449
00:20:43,780 --> 00:20:39,910
detect things that have no known

450
00:20:46,270 --> 00:20:43,790
physical properties what I did find out

451
00:20:51,060 --> 00:20:46,280
in the research is from the beginning of

452
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:51,070
technology at the dawn of science

453
00:20:55,870 --> 00:20:53,570
apparatus has always been associated

454
00:20:58,480 --> 00:20:55,880
with science scientists have to have

455
00:21:01,000 --> 00:20:58,490
something in their hands and trying to

456
00:21:04,510 --> 00:21:01,010
measure things and gadgets and Lady

457
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:04,520
things and gizmos and so it's not ghost

458
00:21:09,310 --> 00:21:07,010
hunters or Ghostbusters that invented

459
00:21:12,370 --> 00:21:09,320
this it's always been the case and in

460
00:21:13,420 --> 00:21:12,380
fact even when the camera and the radio

461
00:21:15,450 --> 00:21:13,430
was invented those

462
00:21:17,410 --> 00:21:15,460
were sort of seen as supernatural

463
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:17,420
apparatus because it felt that they

464
00:21:22,270 --> 00:21:19,130
could maybe transcend the natural world

465
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:22,280
I capture something on the other side so

466
00:21:26,050 --> 00:21:23,810
this has been going on for a really long

467
00:21:29,020 --> 00:21:26,060
time and I think what I was able to see

468
00:21:32,110 --> 00:21:29,030
is this pattern of these investigators

469
00:21:34,420 --> 00:21:32,120
and the the things that they but they

470
00:21:37,810 --> 00:21:34,430
pick out and things that they use the

471
00:21:39,550 --> 00:21:37,820
roles that they try to play and it's

472
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:39,560
almost a model of the way that they

473
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:41,600
behave so it's been an interesting

474
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:45,200
experience and it's occurred to me of

475
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:48,410
course it's one sphere of investigation

476
00:21:53,620 --> 00:21:52,010
with an incredible failure rate I think

477
00:21:57,370 --> 00:21:53,630
it's around a hundred percent so far

478
00:21:59,020 --> 00:21:57,380
right and obvious a ghost hunters the

479
00:22:02,140 --> 00:21:59,030
sad thing is that the people who call

480
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:02,150
them sometimes really do need help mmm

481
00:22:06,580 --> 00:22:04,310
they're scared they're very freaked out

482
00:22:10,350 --> 00:22:06,590
they believe something strange is going

483
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:10,360
on and they want someone to talk to and

484
00:22:16,510 --> 00:22:13,850
these amateur investigators do serve a

485
00:22:18,970 --> 00:22:16,520
role where else could these people go to

486
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:18,980
tell their story and have a sympathetic

487
00:22:24,330 --> 00:22:22,610
ear so in a way they do play an

488
00:22:27,910 --> 00:22:24,340
interesting role in our society

489
00:22:29,530 --> 00:22:27,920
scientists has have left these fields

490
00:22:32,260 --> 00:22:29,540
they don't want anything to do with it

491
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:32,270
and who are these people to turn to it's

492
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:35,450
kind of strange I guess so and it's sort

493
00:22:40,270 --> 00:22:37,730
of feeds back on itself because the

494
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:40,280
people who want them want to have these

495
00:22:43,210 --> 00:22:42,050
people come and investigate the ghost is

496
00:22:45,910 --> 00:22:43,220
just a sort of people who would believe

497
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:45,920
in ghosts anyway and when these people

498
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:47,930
exactly scientific looking instruments

499
00:22:51,610 --> 00:22:49,730
and their black t-shirts and they have

500
00:22:53,020 --> 00:22:51,620
various roles and they'll bring along oh

501
00:22:55,930 --> 00:22:53,030
yeah one of them in the group is

502
00:22:58,930 --> 00:22:55,940
normally the the group's clairvoyant or

503
00:23:01,480 --> 00:22:58,940
medium or something like to tune in on

504
00:23:03,250 --> 00:23:01,490
the vibrations oh and it's kind of

505
00:23:05,290 --> 00:23:03,260
hilarious because they say we use

506
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:05,300
science but you bring along our psychic

507
00:23:11,530 --> 00:23:07,970
that's right well I look forward to that

508
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:11,540
book very much it is an interesting area

509
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:13,760
if I can offer any insights from

510
00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:15,890
Australia I'd be happy to do so but

511
00:23:20,950 --> 00:23:17,990
anyway Sharon I'm so pleased that

512
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:20,960
doubtful news is going strong good on

513
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:22,850
you for taking a break I know that

514
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:25,130
sometimes a crosses my mind it would be

515
00:23:30,350 --> 00:23:27,330
nice to take a break from the Skip Dixon

516
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:30,360
quick but it is an important thing to do

517
00:23:35,810 --> 00:23:32,370
I think it's a terrific resource and

518
00:23:37,850 --> 00:23:35,820
what's that website once again doubtful

519
00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:37,860
news com that's easy to remember and

520
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:41,400
fact next time I see you I must I must

521
00:23:45,230 --> 00:23:43,290
buy you some dinner so you'll give me

522
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:45,240
another lovely doubtful news t shirt I

523
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:47,610
wore the last one last one I wore to

524
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:51,930
death we have these great bags too so

525
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:54,960
when they I've got ya if anyone wants to

526
00:23:59,780 --> 00:23:57,090
have me up for some bags I can get them

527
00:24:03,940 --> 00:23:59,790
great tote bags that fold up and fit

528
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:03,950
inside your car a box or your purse or

529
00:24:09,140 --> 00:24:06,690
they're there they're good swag to have

530
00:24:11,690 --> 00:24:09,150
yes they're fantastic because I use one

531
00:24:16,010 --> 00:24:11,700
actually I got one off you I guess it

532
00:24:18,590 --> 00:24:16,020
was the last time last year where I saw

533
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:18,600
you and I you very kindly gave me a

534
00:24:22,460 --> 00:24:20,970
doubtful news tote bag and a fault they

535
00:24:24,410 --> 00:24:22,470
scrunch right up and you open them up

536
00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:24,420
and they have been testing oh you're a

537
00:24:28,940 --> 00:24:26,790
good person to know sharon hill and you

538
00:24:30,590 --> 00:24:28,950
know I I do look forward to the next

539
00:24:33,050 --> 00:24:30,600
time we meet hopefully won't be too long

540
00:24:34,690 --> 00:24:33,060
but for now sharon hill all the way over

541
00:24:38,450 --> 00:24:34,700
there in harrisburg thank you very much

542
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:38,460
thanks Richard bye everybody

543
00:24:59,270 --> 00:24:57,450
I toss a coin hundred times and I'm

544
00:25:01,880 --> 00:24:59,280
allowed to withhold from you the ISIS

545
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:01,890
half the times then I can convince you

546
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:04,410
that I have a coin with two heads okay

547
00:25:09,140 --> 00:25:07,200
if we remove half of the data we can

548
00:25:12,410 --> 00:25:09,150
never know what the true effect size of

549
00:25:15,740 --> 00:25:12,420
these medicines we cannot make decisions

550
00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:15,750
in the absence all of the information in

551
00:25:19,460 --> 00:25:17,640
silence we don't care how many letters

552
00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:19,470
in have after your name in science we

553
00:25:22,670 --> 00:25:21,030
want to know what your reasons aren't

554
00:25:24,830 --> 00:25:22,680
for believing somehow do you know that

555
00:25:28,130 --> 00:25:24,840
something is good for us or bad for us

556
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:28,140
an evening with Ben Goldacre homeopathic

557
00:25:34,940 --> 00:25:32,370
hucksters nonsensical naturopaths Andy

558
00:25:37,670 --> 00:25:34,950
intellectual anti-vaxxers slippery

559
00:25:40,220 --> 00:25:37,680
statistician the journalists daring to

560
00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:40,230
declare meets is critically carcinogenic

561
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:42,950
let's not forget fraudulent

562
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:45,810
pharmaceutical firms so when the public

563
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:47,610
is kept in the dark about the

564
00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:50,370
detrimental duplicity of these

565
00:25:54,650 --> 00:25:53,220
declarations how many scientists does it

566
00:25:58,130 --> 00:25:54,660
take to screw in a light bulb that it

567
00:26:00,620 --> 00:25:58,140
illuminates the facts just one dr. ben

568
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:00,630
goldacre shining light in Australia and

569
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:03,190
New Zealand this September

570
00:26:08,430 --> 00:26:06,010
an evening with Ben Goldacre is brought

571
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:08,440
to you by think think the folks behind

572
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:10,510
the Australian tools of dr. Neil

573
00:26:16,830 --> 00:26:13,570
deGrasse Tyson James the amazing Randi

574
00:26:18,690 --> 00:26:16,840
Steve Wozniak and many more Ben Goldacre

575
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:18,700
will be speaking in Brisbane Melbourne

576
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:21,490
Auckland and Sydney and to get your

577
00:26:30,780 --> 00:26:28,210
tickets visit w wa you and i hope to see

578
00:27:02,410 --> 00:26:30,790
you at the sydney talk on sunday the

579
00:27:07,330 --> 00:27:04,850
now here's something a very great

580
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:07,340
concern brought to us by a friend

581
00:27:14,420 --> 00:27:10,080
reasonable Hank at the reason blank blog

582
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:14,430
which is reasonable Hank dot-com is the

583
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:18,210
pin up man or should I say the dartboard

584
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:20,730
pin up man of many anti-vaxxers many

585
00:27:25,910 --> 00:27:23,840
anti-vaxxers loon conspiracy theorists

586
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:25,920
chiropractor especially the

587
00:27:32,690 --> 00:27:29,370
anti-vaccination ones and alt med

588
00:27:35,210 --> 00:27:32,700
huckster what reasonable Hank is done

589
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:35,220
now for some months is put up on his

590
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:37,650
blog the rantings and ravings and

591
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:40,250
postings online postings of

592
00:27:47,420 --> 00:27:45,840
anti-vaccination nurses and midwives yes

593
00:27:49,460 --> 00:27:47,430
it's hard to believe that there is a

594
00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:49,470
certain percentage for nurses and

595
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:52,140
midwives who are anti-vaccination who

596
00:27:56,990 --> 00:27:54,210
have bought into the conspiracy theories

597
00:28:00,080 --> 00:27:57,000
and one hates to think what they're

598
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:00,090
advising young parents now what

599
00:28:07,070 --> 00:28:02,370
reasonable Hank has done is he is not

600
00:28:11,180 --> 00:28:07,080
only named these people he has extensive

601
00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:11,190
pages on them showing their postings

602
00:28:16,820 --> 00:28:14,070
online to great detail on how they are

603
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:16,830
in fact really anti-vaccination and what

604
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:20,490
did also is done and I don't know if I

605
00:28:25,790 --> 00:28:22,880
Hank regional Hank set out to do this

606
00:28:28,790 --> 00:28:25,800
it's also turned into somewhat over an

607
00:28:32,540 --> 00:28:28,800
interesting archive interesting in a

608
00:28:36,140 --> 00:28:32,550
morbid sense of anti-vaccination memes

609
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:36,150
and just clicking on some of the the

610
00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:37,890
screenshots posted by these

611
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:40,860
anti-vaccination nurses and midwives we

612
00:28:46,730 --> 00:28:44,010
can we can see many many examples of the

613
00:28:48,860 --> 00:28:46,740
memes that their fur posted the screen

614
00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:48,870
captures and I thought I'd read some of

615
00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:51,030
them out to you these are doing the

616
00:28:54,770 --> 00:28:53,220
rounds of the internet and of course we

617
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:54,780
expect them from the anti-vaccination

618
00:28:59,540 --> 00:28:57,810
zealots out there but if we just don't

619
00:29:03,230 --> 00:28:59,550
expect this sort of thing from people

620
00:29:05,620 --> 00:29:03,240
who really should know better and need

621
00:29:09,050 --> 00:29:05,630
to know better being nurses and midwives

622
00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:09,060
now of course must be a tiny percentage

623
00:29:12,130 --> 00:29:11,070
of nurses and midwives i'm sure the vast

624
00:29:14,730 --> 00:29:12,140
majority

625
00:29:19,060 --> 00:29:14,740
are on board with the science and

626
00:29:22,690 --> 00:29:19,070
wouldn't be so stupid and foolhardy as

627
00:29:25,860 --> 00:29:22,700
to join in the general conspiracy

628
00:29:29,770 --> 00:29:25,870
theories but the ones listed on

629
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:29,780
reasonable Hank blog appear to be so

630
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:33,290
here are some of the memes as posted at

631
00:29:37,660 --> 00:29:35,210
various places by these nurses and

632
00:29:39,610 --> 00:29:37,670
midwives here's one it's a lovely

633
00:29:43,210 --> 00:29:39,620
picture at the ocean what does it say

634
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:43,220
one in every 42 boys now has autism does

635
00:29:51,850 --> 00:29:47,810
one in every 42 boys died of measles ?

636
00:29:55,780 --> 00:29:51,860
there are various postings here for the

637
00:29:58,450 --> 00:29:55,790
vax movie help bring the movie vax from

638
00:30:00,640 --> 00:29:58,460
cover up to catastrophe to australia and

639
00:30:03,970 --> 00:30:00,650
new zealand share and find out group on

640
00:30:08,350 --> 00:30:03,980
facebook oh dear now the one with a a

641
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:08,360
road sign says vaccine checkpoint ahead

642
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:11,210
and just scrolling through the the lists

643
00:30:16,390 --> 00:30:13,130
here here's another meme come up posted

644
00:30:19,090 --> 00:30:16,400
by one of these nurses your baby needs

645
00:30:22,660 --> 00:30:19,100
the hepatitis V vaccine in case he

646
00:30:25,180 --> 00:30:22,670
shoots up heroin with a prostitute hmm

647
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:25,190
charming here's another one a meme that

648
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:28,240
says the murdering of our daughters

649
00:30:35,950 --> 00:30:32,960
which is ranting about the gardasil

650
00:30:38,050 --> 00:30:35,960
vaccination another one it's quite too

651
00:30:42,430 --> 00:30:38,060
graphic there is a picture of a little

652
00:30:45,970 --> 00:30:42,440
baby lying on a poison sign with lots of

653
00:30:48,550 --> 00:30:45,980
needles stuck all over its body the next

654
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:48,560
picture along has a man in a in a

655
00:30:53,230 --> 00:30:51,290
chemical hazard suit spraying crops it

656
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:53,240
would appear and there's another picture

657
00:31:00,300 --> 00:30:56,480
there of a teenager guzzling a hamburger

658
00:31:04,150 --> 00:31:00,310
and the caption is a world gone mad

659
00:31:07,300 --> 00:31:04,160
where this is normal and okay when those

660
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:07,310
pictures and this is radical and

661
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:09,170
quackery than the radical in quackery

662
00:31:15,010 --> 00:31:13,730
are organic foods a classic meditation

663
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:15,020
shot of somebody sitting cross-legged

664
00:31:21,460 --> 00:31:17,170
with their hands over their head and

665
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:21,470
what appears to be herbs and things

666
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:24,080
ready to grind into natural medicine I

667
00:31:28,810 --> 00:31:25,850
imagine Oh another one

668
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:28,820
it's a it's a grandmother and a little

669
00:31:33,539 --> 00:31:31,850
baby but the grandmother is a wolf like

670
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:33,549
Little Red Riding Hood wolf I guess

671
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:37,250
grandma your dtap only stops you from

672
00:31:42,460 --> 00:31:39,890
coughing after exposure you still carry

673
00:31:45,250 --> 00:31:42,470
pertussis in your Airways for six weeks

674
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:45,260
understand the danger with a website

675
00:31:50,110 --> 00:31:47,890
link and we've click over to another

676
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:50,120
another listing from another one of

677
00:31:58,149 --> 00:31:53,600
these nurses and midwives I is the next

678
00:32:00,190 --> 00:31:58,159
meme as as published has promoted as

679
00:32:04,390 --> 00:32:00,200
well as recycled by one of these people

680
00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:04,400
I am NOT Mandy vaccine I am pro child

681
00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:07,070
pro-family pro community I am Pro

682
00:32:12,669 --> 00:32:09,230
science I am pro research I am pro

683
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:12,679
health pro well-being prosafety I am pro

684
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:15,760
government transparency I am pro

685
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:18,799
pharmaceutical company accountability IM

686
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:21,289
pro honesty i am pro critical thinking I

687
00:32:30,010 --> 00:32:26,330
am pro freedom in other words they see

688
00:32:32,340 --> 00:32:30,020
his ID vaccinations all this all this

689
00:32:34,659 --> 00:32:32,350
rhetoric they go on about about

690
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:34,669
pro-freedom and all the rest of it's

691
00:32:39,220 --> 00:32:37,010
just a cover-up that they're crossed

692
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:39,230
their anti-vaccination I mean the same

693
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:42,110
one has links to vaccine free Australia

694
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:44,570
and unvaccinated in Australia and so on

695
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:47,330
another one they've posted up another

696
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:51,679
meme has men dressed in riot gear with

697
00:32:56,860 --> 00:32:54,559
lots of needles attacking people on the

698
00:32:58,840 --> 00:32:56,870
street in the background the right truck

699
00:33:02,350 --> 00:32:58,850
says mandatory vaccination and the

700
00:33:04,990 --> 00:33:02,360
lettering says take a long sobering look

701
00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:05,000
into the not-too-distant future there we

702
00:33:10,390 --> 00:33:06,230
go we're going to be tackled to the

703
00:33:12,820 --> 00:33:10,400
ground by riot police with the needles

704
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:12,830
and another picture has a little baby

705
00:33:19,060 --> 00:33:15,200
crying being taken away by one of these

706
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:19,070
evil vaccine enforcement police it's

707
00:33:23,340 --> 00:33:21,110
quite amazing Hank reasonable Hank

708
00:33:26,020 --> 00:33:23,350
you've really put together an incredible

709
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:26,030
archive of these anti-vaccination memes

710
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:28,880
here's another one top 5 reasons to

711
00:33:35,490 --> 00:33:32,090
vaccinate your kids number one injecting

712
00:33:37,460 --> 00:33:35,500
aluminium and formaldehyde is healthy

713
00:33:40,970 --> 00:33:37,470
too

714
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:40,980
you never read the package insert three

715
00:33:48,890 --> 00:33:44,210
seizures asthma and allergies are fun

716
00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:48,900
for you don't understand natural human

717
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:52,230
immunity and five everyone else does it

718
00:33:58,700 --> 00:33:56,090
now what is also on the the website

719
00:34:01,580 --> 00:33:58,710
listed under the the memes and the

720
00:34:02,990 --> 00:34:01,590
postings by these people are references

721
00:34:06,049 --> 00:34:03,000
to such things as the code of

722
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:06,059
Professional Conduct for midwives well

723
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:07,890
look I could go on and on and on because

724
00:34:13,849 --> 00:34:11,250
there are so many nurses and midwives

725
00:34:16,849 --> 00:34:13,859
are listed here at the blog but I will

726
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,859
link to this in this week's show notes

727
00:34:20,899 --> 00:34:18,960
or if you visit reasonable hang calm you

728
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:20,909
can see it for yourself in fact i'll

729
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:23,040
link directly to the search solar all

730
00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:25,200
these will come up it's quite

731
00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:28,470
eye-opening and it's a little bit scary

732
00:34:34,099 --> 00:34:30,990
to to think that there are people who

733
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:34,109
should enjoy a great level of respect in

734
00:34:39,339 --> 00:34:37,440
our community who are into the very

735
00:34:44,210 --> 00:34:39,349
conspiracy theory that puts their own

736
00:34:46,339 --> 00:34:44,220
and their own careers in question and

737
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:46,349
that's putting it lightly but more

738
00:34:51,470 --> 00:34:48,450
importantly it's putting young lives at

739
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:51,480
risk well done reasonable Hank a very

740
00:34:56,669 --> 00:34:54,649
worrying story indeed

741
00:35:14,730 --> 00:34:56,679
you

742
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:18,100
the skeptic zone live a special live

743
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:21,430
recording of this very podcast at the

744
00:35:27,580 --> 00:35:24,290
Occidental hotel in Sydney just near

745
00:35:30,220 --> 00:35:27,590
winded station 43 York Street this is

746
00:35:33,250 --> 00:35:30,230
part of skeptics in the pub join me in

747
00:35:36,130 --> 00:35:33,260
the skeptic zone crew for live reports

748
00:35:38,770 --> 00:35:36,140
and interviews prize giveaways on the

749
00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:38,780
night everybody's welcome but for more

750
00:35:44,890 --> 00:35:40,420
information and to reserve your place

751
00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:44,900
visit meetup com /a ust skeptics there

752
00:35:49,260 --> 00:35:46,670
will be a link in this week show notes

753
00:35:52,050 --> 00:35:49,270
see you there at the skeptic zone live

754
00:36:21,120 --> 00:35:52,060
Thursday the sixth of October at the

755
00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:24,640
joining me now all the way from Turkey

756
00:36:28,540 --> 00:36:26,510
New Mexico I've never been there I'd

757
00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:28,550
like to visit and if I did go to visit I

758
00:36:33,850 --> 00:36:30,710
would certainly visit my old friend van

759
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:33,860
Radford hello Ben hello there Richard

760
00:36:37,870 --> 00:36:36,530
hello good to see you because that's

761
00:36:40,330 --> 00:36:37,880
what we're doing at the moment through

762
00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:40,340
the wonders of the one is the skype you

763
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:42,710
got the old skeptical beard happening

764
00:36:47,620 --> 00:36:45,920
man I see yeah you know I figured I need

765
00:36:50,260 --> 00:36:47,630
to look a little distinguished a little

766
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:50,270
a little bit of gray helps me either

767
00:36:53,830 --> 00:36:52,250
look old or look look intelligent I'm

768
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:53,840
not sure which you take your pick well

769
00:36:58,270 --> 00:36:56,000
that's why I've been very carefully

770
00:37:03,010 --> 00:36:58,280
dyeing my hair gray for years to give me

771
00:37:05,170 --> 00:37:03,020
that distinguish look I put a little bit

772
00:37:08,610 --> 00:37:05,180
in each year you know nobody notices

773
00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:08,620
they think I'm gently oh well I wish

774
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:11,030
anyway optical you're skeptical I

775
00:37:14,910 --> 00:37:14,240
haven't seen you since we we saw each

776
00:37:16,380 --> 00:37:14,920
other at the LA

777
00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:16,390
amazing meeting which was the last

778
00:37:20,490 --> 00:37:18,609
amazing meeting and I remember I ended

779
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:20,500
interviewed you outside because we're

780
00:37:24,839 --> 00:37:22,240
looking for somewhere quiet but there

781
00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:24,849
was constant helicopters it was insane

782
00:37:30,030 --> 00:37:27,190
it was but it was most like you set it

783
00:37:31,470 --> 00:37:30,040
up but I know you didn't I did but that

784
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:31,480
was a lot of fun that was a lot of fun

785
00:37:36,510 --> 00:37:34,240
we certainly a lament that there will be

786
00:37:40,829 --> 00:37:36,520
no more tams it was a good run for many

787
00:37:44,299 --> 00:37:40,839
years but I'm I've given you a tap today

788
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:44,309
called you up because there's this

789
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:47,290
bizarre thing going on which I've seen

790
00:37:51,630 --> 00:37:49,690
on various feeds I haven't paid it too

791
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:51,640
much attention because it sort of got

792
00:37:55,859 --> 00:37:53,650
lost a little bit in the wash of bizarre

793
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:55,869
things but it keeps coming up this is

794
00:38:00,480 --> 00:37:57,970
all about and sort of touches on the

795
00:38:05,789 --> 00:38:00,490
paranormal in a strange sort of way this

796
00:38:08,190 --> 00:38:05,799
is all about creepy and bad clowns that

797
00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:08,200
seem to be infesting the United States

798
00:38:15,630 --> 00:38:12,670
now what the hell is this all about it's

799
00:38:18,059 --> 00:38:15,640
a it's a it's actually I honestly is

800
00:38:20,099 --> 00:38:18,069
it's such a complex topics that it would

801
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:20,109
really probably take me half hour to to

802
00:38:23,579 --> 00:38:21,490
really go into and it's it's a

803
00:38:24,990 --> 00:38:23,589
fascinating topic as as you know I

804
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:25,000
recently wrote a book about it called

805
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:27,490
bad clowns yeah and I go into the

806
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:29,650
history of evil clowns and scary clowns

807
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:31,599
and in real life and pop culture and

808
00:38:34,799 --> 00:38:33,010
this and that and it was it was just

809
00:38:36,329 --> 00:38:34,809
I've actually had some people who sort

810
00:38:38,789 --> 00:38:36,339
of looked at me sideways and asked me if

811
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:38,799
I if I've been dressing his clown to

812
00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:40,930
promote my book i said no i have an

813
00:38:47,549 --> 00:38:43,839
alibi I wasn't around at the time you

814
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:47,559
know ask Richard nobody here's what is

815
00:38:51,870 --> 00:38:49,510
fascinating let me give you sort of a

816
00:38:54,329 --> 00:38:51,880
thumbnail sketch so what's what's been

817
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:54,339
happening and it's been especially true

818
00:39:00,210 --> 00:38:57,040
over the past but say six weeks or two

819
00:39:04,829 --> 00:39:00,220
months or so is there's been a series of

820
00:39:08,190 --> 00:39:04,839
a clown scary clown creepy clown reports

821
00:39:09,539 --> 00:39:08,200
um and this is actually nothing new as I

822
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:09,549
talk about in the book and also Loren

823
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:11,410
Coleman in his book mysterious America

824
00:39:15,150 --> 00:39:12,880
and other people have written about it

825
00:39:16,799 --> 00:39:15,160
as well but there's that there's a

826
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:16,809
long-standing phenomena of what are

827
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:20,770
called phantom clowns and and again I

828
00:39:24,780 --> 00:39:22,240
devoted chapter my book to it because

829
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:24,790
it's such a bizarre fascinating 40 in

830
00:39:31,690 --> 00:39:28,610
topic but basically these are clowns

831
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:31,700
sort of a rumors of clowns that that

832
00:39:36,370 --> 00:39:34,130
have circulated the the first ones that

833
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:36,380
were really the really sort of came into

834
00:39:41,950 --> 00:39:39,290
prominence were in the 1980s in 1981 for

835
00:39:44,530 --> 00:39:41,960
example there was a in Massachusetts

836
00:39:47,230 --> 00:39:44,540
there were reports of clowns in a white

837
00:39:50,170 --> 00:39:47,240
van that we're trying to allegedly lure

838
00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:50,180
and abduct children and as you can

839
00:39:54,610 --> 00:39:52,310
imagine this scare people right are

840
00:39:56,890 --> 00:39:54,620
these clowns creeping around children ah

841
00:39:59,440 --> 00:39:56,900
but it was it was interesting because it

842
00:40:01,450 --> 00:39:59,450
when when when police investigated they

843
00:40:03,010 --> 00:40:01,460
never found anything was always it was

844
00:40:05,290 --> 00:40:03,020
always you know they would they would

845
00:40:07,450 --> 00:40:05,300
send squad cars out they investigate and

846
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:07,460
no one ever saw these clowns except for

847
00:40:12,820 --> 00:40:09,650
children and the vast majority of the

848
00:40:15,610 --> 00:40:12,830
reports were from from from from

849
00:40:18,010 --> 00:40:15,620
children and some of them we know you

850
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:18,020
know upon investigation we know were

851
00:40:22,780 --> 00:40:20,480
hoaxes right so for example they were

852
00:40:26,410 --> 00:40:22,790
hey there were some where for example a

853
00:40:29,170 --> 00:40:26,420
kid said that he was confronted by a he

854
00:40:32,290 --> 00:40:29,180
was he was going to school with his bit

855
00:40:35,350 --> 00:40:32,300
his backpack of books and he he suddenly

856
00:40:38,110 --> 00:40:35,360
was confronted by a clown with a machete

857
00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:38,120
in one hand and a Uzi machine gun in the

858
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:43,310
other hand ah now I i find this dubious

859
00:40:48,190 --> 00:40:45,170
for several reasons but let me finish

860
00:40:51,610 --> 00:40:48,200
the story so so apparently what this

861
00:40:55,060 --> 00:40:51,620
brave child did was he threw his bag of

862
00:40:57,550 --> 00:40:55,070
books at this armed clown uh which

863
00:41:00,640 --> 00:40:57,560
terrified the clown apparently the the

864
00:41:04,510 --> 00:41:00,650
bag of school books from this from this

865
00:41:06,820 --> 00:41:04,520
this this pubescent boy was so scared

866
00:41:09,750 --> 00:41:06,830
that was terrifying the clown dropped

867
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:09,760
his machete and machine gun and ran off

868
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:13,970
uh now you may be wondering I'm sorry

869
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:15,710
I've got you could I've got the image in

870
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:17,810
my head of the funny shoes and scree

871
00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:19,850
scree scree scree nothing exactly right

872
00:41:25,810 --> 00:41:22,910
and police are showing up looking for

873
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:25,820
like size 48 foot bridge right ha dado

874
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:28,490
so so when you look at the story you're

875
00:41:33,340 --> 00:41:30,890
like well you know I'm skeptical right

876
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:33,350
yeah it's like all of a sudden you know

877
00:41:37,780 --> 00:41:35,090
that the kids the hero of the story cuz

878
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:37,790
he bravely you know shadow you scared

879
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:39,770
the clear anyway of course I'm not

880
00:41:42,490 --> 00:41:41,810
ruining anything by spy telling you that

881
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:42,500
he admitted

882
00:41:48,190 --> 00:41:44,720
this this was in fact not true the whole

883
00:41:49,810 --> 00:41:48,200
thing was fake I know but uh but so what

884
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:49,820
happened was that over over the last

885
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:52,880
over the next few decades these the

886
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:54,770
so-called phantom clowns recurred in

887
00:41:59,110 --> 00:41:56,240
different places so there was some in

888
00:42:01,330 --> 00:41:59,120
Massachusetts there's some of Chicago

889
00:42:03,790 --> 00:42:01,340
there were reports in in honduras in

890
00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:03,800
Central America also in in England and

891
00:42:09,250 --> 00:42:06,350
elsewhere great so these the the

892
00:42:10,450 --> 00:42:09,260
so-called phantom clowns again they sort

893
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:10,460
of they would they would there would be

894
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:12,890
these this sort of spate of reports or

895
00:42:17,650 --> 00:42:15,410
sightings that would make the news for a

896
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:17,660
few weeks or maybe even a month and then

897
00:42:21,820 --> 00:42:18,890
sort of fade away and then they would

898
00:42:23,860 --> 00:42:21,830
re-emerge six months later or a couple

899
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:23,870
years later somewhere else and the the

900
00:42:27,730 --> 00:42:25,610
common thread here was that they were

901
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:27,740
always near misses there were never

902
00:42:33,790 --> 00:42:30,530
actually any children that were abducted

903
00:42:36,580 --> 00:42:33,800
attacked you know molested killed or

904
00:42:38,290 --> 00:42:36,590
anything of it was it was always near

905
00:42:40,510 --> 00:42:38,300
misses it was always it was almost

906
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:40,520
always children and they almost always

907
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:43,250
you know had the story about how and it

908
00:42:47,290 --> 00:42:44,720
was it you know and what happened was it

909
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:47,300
was essentially a folkloric thing so so

910
00:42:50,830 --> 00:42:48,890
then the rumors started it was basically

911
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:50,840
schoolyard rumors so some people say

912
00:42:54,340 --> 00:42:52,730
well you know the reason these clowns

913
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:54,350
are trying to abduct kids is because

914
00:42:59,620 --> 00:42:56,720
they use their they kill the children

915
00:43:03,040 --> 00:42:59,630
use their blood Oh put on ice cream ice

916
00:43:07,660 --> 00:43:03,050
cream topping what now you know again I

917
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:07,670
I'm like really this is you know and in

918
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:09,770
it again from a folkloric point of view

919
00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:11,450
it's fascinating because it this

920
00:43:16,450 --> 00:43:13,430
actually traces back to for example the

921
00:43:18,370 --> 00:43:16,460
blood libel rumors that were held

922
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:18,380
against against the Jews you know

923
00:43:23,890 --> 00:43:21,650
millennia ago so this whole notion that

924
00:43:26,110 --> 00:43:23,900
the blood of innocent children is being

925
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:26,120
used for nefarious purposes this has a

926
00:43:30,610 --> 00:43:28,130
long tradition and it just happened he

927
00:43:34,570 --> 00:43:30,620
updated in this particular clown context

928
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:34,580
um so anyway so so this is the this is

929
00:43:39,820 --> 00:43:37,250
the background for the Phantom clowns in

930
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:39,830
addition to these phantom clowns which

931
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:41,330
by the way in the book I make analogies

932
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:46,310
to basically water would circle you know

933
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:48,560
phantom menaces and examples this would

934
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:52,850
be Spring Heeled jack or the fit the

935
00:43:56,290 --> 00:43:55,040
phantom gasser of Mattoon or the the

936
00:43:59,560 --> 00:43:56,300
type a slasher and

937
00:44:02,350 --> 00:43:59,570
there's there's a handful of of figures

938
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:02,360
historical sort of mysteries uh there's

939
00:44:05,110 --> 00:44:03,770
about a dozen or so depending on how you

940
00:44:07,740 --> 00:44:05,120
count them but essentially these are

941
00:44:11,050 --> 00:44:07,750
these tend to be masked figures who are

942
00:44:13,690 --> 00:44:11,060
briefly seen reported usually bye bye

943
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:13,700
bye children not always but but often

944
00:44:18,820 --> 00:44:16,850
times and but that are said to sort of

945
00:44:20,770 --> 00:44:18,830
Menace people they don't really attack

946
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:20,780
people for the most part there's there's

947
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:23,090
very few cases of anyone actually being

948
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:24,890
killed or injured it's more sort of a

949
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:28,010
menace or a threat and so I place these

950
00:44:34,450 --> 00:44:31,280
phantom clowns clearly in the context of

951
00:44:36,070 --> 00:44:34,460
this larger group of phantom menace so

952
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:36,080
anyway so that's that's that's why I

953
00:44:40,060 --> 00:44:37,850
piece it so so that's one that's one

954
00:44:42,910 --> 00:44:40,070
element that's going on the second thing

955
00:44:46,180 --> 00:44:42,920
that's going on is that there have been

956
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:46,190
a series of real-life people not not

957
00:44:50,110 --> 00:44:48,650
mythological folklore people not you

958
00:44:53,650 --> 00:44:50,120
know mythical entities like slender man

959
00:44:55,540 --> 00:44:53,660
or phantom clouds but real people who

960
00:44:59,200 --> 00:44:55,550
are dressing as clowns trying to scare

961
00:45:02,590 --> 00:44:59,210
people uh actually and this is big going

962
00:45:04,530 --> 00:45:02,600
on for for several years I the first one

963
00:45:08,140 --> 00:45:04,540
that really caught my attention was a

964
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:08,150
character named Northampton clown and he

965
00:45:13,390 --> 00:45:11,210
was seen in Northampton England and it

966
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,400
was this clown that would appear in

967
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:15,680
Northampton usually at night just

968
00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:19,010
standing there looking scary waving

969
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:23,030
waving menace lead to passersby uh and

970
00:45:26,350 --> 00:45:24,560
he didn't attack anyone he didn't hurt

971
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:26,360
anyone it wasn't kind of weapon but it

972
00:45:31,090 --> 00:45:28,370
was just creepy enough to see a person

973
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:31,100
in a park or a roadway or a street yeah

974
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:33,410
it's in the semi-darkness standing there

975
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:36,290
alone and so what happened was this

976
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:39,890
Northampton clown character uh he and a

977
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:42,800
friend began posting photos and on

978
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:44,450
social media and so they would actually

979
00:45:48,010 --> 00:45:46,310
encourage people hey if you've seen the

980
00:45:50,050 --> 00:45:48,020
Northampton clown take a photo put it on

981
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:50,060
Facebook page there was actually

982
00:45:53,890 --> 00:45:51,770
Northampton clown facebook page it was

983
00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:53,900
set up and the whole thing turned out to

984
00:45:59,170 --> 00:45:55,910
be basically a publicity stunt for a

985
00:46:00,490 --> 00:45:59,180
filmmaker yeah ah yeah there you go so

986
00:46:01,810 --> 00:46:00,500
anyway so that that was one of the

987
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:01,820
original ones that was the Northampton

988
00:46:06,820 --> 00:46:05,090
clown and in in later years and I know

989
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:06,830
because I wrote about this for Discovery

990
00:46:10,660 --> 00:46:08,330
News and life science and other other

991
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:10,670
other outlets I mean I followed this

992
00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:13,280
very closely so so what would happen is

993
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:16,070
the the few a few months later in some

994
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:17,690
cases a year later often right around

995
00:46:21,610 --> 00:46:20,090
Halloween there would be copycats so

996
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:21,620
there was then there was the Staten

997
00:46:24,820 --> 00:46:23,510
Island clown and then there was there

998
00:46:26,980 --> 00:46:24,830
were a couple other clowns there were

999
00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:26,990
there was a spate of clown reports in

1000
00:46:32,530 --> 00:46:31,040
for example in in France in 2014 on one

1001
00:46:34,570 --> 00:46:32,540
hand again you have these phantom clowns

1002
00:46:37,660 --> 00:46:34,580
which are essentially mythological

1003
00:46:39,850 --> 00:46:37,670
legendary menacing creatures that that

1004
00:46:42,130 --> 00:46:39,860
are sort of that are reported but never

1005
00:46:44,380 --> 00:46:42,140
actually seen ever actually caught and

1006
00:46:46,780 --> 00:46:44,390
and and you know air and almost

1007
00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:46,790
certainly not not real that are sent for

1008
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:48,710
you the product of rumors legend then

1009
00:46:54,100 --> 00:46:51,440
you have people who actually do dresses

1010
00:46:55,630 --> 00:46:54,110
clowns uh but the important the

1011
00:46:57,700 --> 00:46:55,640
important distinction here is that the

1012
00:46:59,110 --> 00:46:57,710
people who've just as clowns when you

1013
00:47:01,690 --> 00:46:59,120
when you actually look what they do uh

1014
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:01,700
they don't they don't attack anyone for

1015
00:47:04,990 --> 00:47:02,720
the most part I mean there's there's a

1016
00:47:06,340 --> 00:47:05,000
handful it's used copycats it's it's

1017
00:47:07,780 --> 00:47:06,350
people who are just have that's good to

1018
00:47:10,030 --> 00:47:07,790
know yeah yeah they're just having fun

1019
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:10,040
they're there because the thing it's so

1020
00:47:15,820 --> 00:47:12,290
easy to have this viral story right all

1021
00:47:17,290 --> 00:47:15,830
you need is a clown mask and you know to

1022
00:47:18,700 --> 00:47:17,300
dress up and stain somewhere at night

1023
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:18,710
wait for someone to photograph you and

1024
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:20,930
suddenly you're making national news so

1025
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:22,850
this is the these two factors are at

1026
00:47:27,540 --> 00:47:25,010
play and what happened about six weeks

1027
00:47:31,990 --> 00:47:27,550
ago in in Greenville South Carolina

1028
00:47:33,820 --> 00:47:32,000
their reports of of of these these

1029
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:33,830
clowns that were allegedly trying to

1030
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:35,690
lure people behind this this group of

1031
00:47:40,660 --> 00:47:37,850
buildings this is hansel and gretel type

1032
00:47:42,370 --> 00:47:40,670
story the story is that there's there's

1033
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:42,380
you know there's these apartments in

1034
00:47:47,740 --> 00:47:44,810
Greenville and behind these apart this

1035
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:47,750
apartment complex through a wooded area

1036
00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:50,090
there's a trail that goes and there's a

1037
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:51,680
house back in the back in the woods

1038
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:53,450
again this is straight a Hansel and

1039
00:47:59,260 --> 00:47:57,410
Gretel right and the kids say rumor

1040
00:48:01,540 --> 00:47:59,270
among children is for what that's worth

1041
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:01,550
but there's a group of clowns that live

1042
00:48:06,070 --> 00:48:04,010
in this house that is you know that is

1043
00:48:08,170 --> 00:48:06,080
down through the woods past death and

1044
00:48:11,740 --> 00:48:08,180
there they and they have been seen

1045
00:48:13,390 --> 00:48:11,750
luring children to them but what's

1046
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:13,400
interesting what so and you would think

1047
00:48:17,620 --> 00:48:14,570
well what are they learning them with

1048
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:17,630
you might think candy ice cream pokemon

1049
00:48:24,130 --> 00:48:21,920
cards no no in this case the the claim

1050
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:24,140
is that they're they're losing children

1051
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:24,650
with

1052
00:48:30,970 --> 00:48:27,680
big watts of money well that'll do it

1053
00:48:33,250 --> 00:48:30,980
every time he read that or iphone 7 I

1054
00:48:36,519 --> 00:48:33,260
think right exactly so it's this

1055
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,529
fascinating modern twist modern American

1056
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:38,960
twist on this on this legendary thing

1057
00:48:42,099 --> 00:48:40,880
right and so so you know yo there's

1058
00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:42,109
clowns out there you know they're

1059
00:48:45,819 --> 00:48:43,730
flashing bigs well was when I'm thinking

1060
00:48:48,010 --> 00:48:45,829
number one first of all many kids are

1061
00:48:49,809 --> 00:48:48,020
scared of clowns so if they saw clown

1062
00:48:51,250 --> 00:48:49,819
they're not going to be fooled by their

1063
00:48:53,769 --> 00:48:51,260
stick in a run like hell me sit

1064
00:48:55,900 --> 00:48:53,779
direction so and then you factor it's a

1065
00:48:58,210 --> 00:48:55,910
it's a fascinating story but so what

1066
00:48:59,890 --> 00:48:58,220
happened was was that this is taken very

1067
00:49:02,019 --> 00:48:59,900
seriously because again you know this is

1068
00:49:03,370 --> 00:49:02,029
you have to remember that the initial

1069
00:49:05,799 --> 00:49:03,380
reports are about children and

1070
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:05,809
oftentimes you know I've I can't tell

1071
00:49:11,019 --> 00:49:07,210
you how many times people say you know

1072
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:11,029
children don't lie and they have you

1073
00:49:16,510 --> 00:49:14,690
ever seen a child should really about

1074
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:16,520
all sorts of things for no reason at all

1075
00:49:21,700 --> 00:49:19,250
right the their life it's part of it

1076
00:49:23,170 --> 00:49:21,710
exactly and it's just part of the the

1077
00:49:25,180 --> 00:49:23,180
growing princess right that's where they

1078
00:49:28,809 --> 00:49:25,190
it doesn't mean they're evil it doesn't

1079
00:49:31,390 --> 00:49:28,819
mean there's just what they do all right

1080
00:49:34,180 --> 00:49:31,400
so I might have told the odd whopper

1081
00:49:36,220 --> 00:49:34,190
myself when I was younger I didn't ever

1082
00:49:38,319 --> 00:49:36,230
know now that's that's understandable

1083
00:49:40,420 --> 00:49:38,329
but so in the end that's then that's

1084
00:49:42,609 --> 00:49:40,430
where the adults come along and slowly

1085
00:49:45,039 --> 00:49:42,619
guide them and teach them that what's

1086
00:49:47,319 --> 00:49:45,049
right rock exact all right what now tell

1087
00:49:49,029 --> 00:49:47,329
me a little bit about your book and how

1088
00:49:52,809 --> 00:49:49,039
people can get that because that that

1089
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:52,819
this it does cover this topic yeah yeah

1090
00:49:57,700 --> 00:49:54,410
I mean that the book is called bad

1091
00:49:59,049 --> 00:49:57,710
clowns I talked with you and Empress

1092
00:50:00,670 --> 00:49:59,059
University of New Mexico press to

1093
00:50:02,740 --> 00:50:00,680
publish it we were going we're trying to

1094
00:50:04,269 --> 00:50:02,750
think should there be a subtitle we went

1095
00:50:07,569 --> 00:50:04,279
back and forth for several weeks said

1096
00:50:10,839 --> 00:50:07,579
what more do you want it's like it's the

1097
00:50:13,809 --> 00:50:10,849
this the title is the subject is bad

1098
00:50:16,660 --> 00:50:13,819
clown that that covers everything it

1099
00:50:19,230 --> 00:50:16,670
goes into historical bad clowns evil

1100
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:19,240
clowns the psychology of fear of clowns

1101
00:50:25,630 --> 00:50:22,400
there I go into dip clowns that the dunk

1102
00:50:28,420 --> 00:50:25,640
tank clowns mr. punch at the punch of

1103
00:50:30,970 --> 00:50:28,430
duty shows fictional clowns so I I try

1104
00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:30,980
to sort of cover the whole spectrum and

1105
00:50:35,410 --> 00:50:33,049
that the book has been it's been out for

1106
00:50:38,050 --> 00:50:35,420
a couple months now you can get it on

1107
00:50:40,810 --> 00:50:38,060
amazon com local bookstores

1108
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:40,820
and and it just so happens again it's I

1109
00:50:46,090 --> 00:50:43,250
the the timing could be better you know

1110
00:50:47,830 --> 00:50:46,100
I just it came out again a few months

1111
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:47,840
ago I'd actually been writing it for for

1112
00:50:52,660 --> 00:50:50,450
about 10 years on and off and it just

1113
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:52,670
happened that this seemed to be a good

1114
00:50:57,630 --> 00:50:54,770
time to write about bad clowns and boom

1115
00:51:00,490 --> 00:50:57,640
there in the news everywhere else sudden

1116
00:51:02,590 --> 00:51:00,500
bad clowns I wonder what'll be next that

1117
00:51:04,900 --> 00:51:02,600
what a fascinating topic now just before

1118
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:04,910
we go earlier on in the show of course

1119
00:51:09,220 --> 00:51:07,010
and i know you are listening Ben I know

1120
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:09,230
you listen to the skeptics in every week

1121
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:10,730
so you would have heard earlier in the

1122
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:12,530
show that you're on now I don't think

1123
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:13,970
that works anyway we were talking to

1124
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:16,850
sharon hill yes maybe that works in some

1125
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:18,410
weird universe i don't know we were

1126
00:51:22,420 --> 00:51:20,330
chatting to sharon hill of doubtful news

1127
00:51:25,810 --> 00:51:22,430
now i must say that that interview i did

1128
00:51:28,810 --> 00:51:25,820
with Sharon was recorded earlier last

1129
00:51:33,460 --> 00:51:28,820
week and was just lined up for this

1130
00:51:36,190 --> 00:51:33,470
episode and the latest news from loch

1131
00:51:38,110 --> 00:51:36,200
ness hadn't hit yet but i noticed now at

1132
00:51:40,090 --> 00:51:38,120
doubtful new sharon hill has covered

1133
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:40,100
this quite well and i'm sure you've been

1134
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:42,650
made aware of this the mysterious

1135
00:51:46,810 --> 00:51:44,570
photograph the new one coming from loch

1136
00:51:49,690 --> 00:51:46,820
ness you have seen it i think i have in

1137
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:49,700
fact i wrote a piece for a seeker which

1138
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:52,400
is formally discovery news online so if

1139
00:51:59,110 --> 00:51:56,810
you if you go to seeker SE e ke are calm

1140
00:52:00,730 --> 00:51:59,120
and you type in Loch Ness or type in my

1141
00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:00,740
name Benjamin Radford you'll you'll find

1142
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:02,510
the story but yes I I wrote a piece

1143
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:04,850
about it in fact just yesterday and in

1144
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:06,650
fact i quote sharon hill whoo-hoo I

1145
00:52:10,300 --> 00:52:08,210
greatly admire and respect she's done

1146
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:10,310
wonderful work for doubtful news and

1147
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:13,370
elsewhere and yeah I I came about came

1148
00:52:18,310 --> 00:52:16,130
you know came into the the investigating

1149
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:18,320
the photograph and looked at the story

1150
00:52:25,660 --> 00:52:21,890
behind it and as Sharon points out you

1151
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:25,670
know it's it's almost certainly seals or

1152
00:52:30,250 --> 00:52:27,530
possibly order that almost but very

1153
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:30,260
likely seals are very likely sales yeah

1154
00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:31,520
and it's in it's you know it's

1155
00:52:35,770 --> 00:52:34,310
interesting because you know one of the

1156
00:52:38,350 --> 00:52:35,780
one of the reasons that it's making such

1157
00:52:42,340 --> 00:52:38,360
news is because you know in the world of

1158
00:52:44,380 --> 00:52:42,350
a Bigfoot and and and Loch Ness monsters

1159
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:44,390
and Yeti almost all the photos are

1160
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:47,930
blurry bad you know out of focus who

1161
00:52:51,849 --> 00:52:49,850
knows what the hell they are this this

1162
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:51,859
photograph is different it is it

1163
00:52:57,579 --> 00:52:55,130
is fairly clear and it is it's in focus

1164
00:53:00,539 --> 00:52:57,589
and its brightly lit unfortunately that

1165
00:53:04,839 --> 00:53:00,549
means that we can tell what it is and so

1166
00:53:07,390 --> 00:53:04,849
yeah in this particular case um yeah and

1167
00:53:09,130 --> 00:53:07,400
it's interesting because if you when

1168
00:53:11,410 --> 00:53:09,140
you're looking at it when you're

1169
00:53:13,630 --> 00:53:11,420
analyzing photographs of monsters and

1170
00:53:16,029 --> 00:53:13,640
leged monsters as of course I have for

1171
00:53:18,789 --> 00:53:16,039
many years some independently and in my

1172
00:53:20,349 --> 00:53:18,799
books and with monster talk podcast what

1173
00:53:22,900 --> 00:53:20,359
you find is you have this there's this

1174
00:53:26,589 --> 00:53:22,910
interesting sort of twilight zone in

1175
00:53:28,210 --> 00:53:26,599
which if a photo is to clear then it

1176
00:53:29,529 --> 00:53:28,220
won't it won't be considered mysterious

1177
00:53:31,779 --> 00:53:29,539
because you'll you'll be able to figure

1178
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:31,789
out what it is if it's if it's if it's

1179
00:53:36,759 --> 00:53:33,680
too blurry if it's if it's too ambiguous

1180
00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:36,769
then you can't tell what it is you're

1181
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:39,200
some sort of blob so that it has to be

1182
00:53:45,370 --> 00:53:42,410
just ambiguous enough to be tantalizing

1183
00:53:47,890 --> 00:53:45,380
or to be to be to be it has to be just

1184
00:53:51,279 --> 00:53:47,900
yeah there it's there's interesting gray

1185
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:51,289
area where if it's do clear then then

1186
00:53:55,569 --> 00:53:53,119
it's not mysterious because we can tell

1187
00:53:58,210 --> 00:53:55,579
what it is if it's not clear enough then

1188
00:54:00,910 --> 00:53:58,220
it just you know a blob against you know

1189
00:54:03,249 --> 00:54:00,920
something dark and so so it is there's

1190
00:54:05,220 --> 00:54:03,259
again the it's only a mystery in that

1191
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:05,230
little son in that little zone there

1192
00:54:09,729 --> 00:54:08,089
we're outside of that it's you know it's

1193
00:54:11,979 --> 00:54:09,739
something that no notices are pay

1194
00:54:13,539 --> 00:54:11,989
attention to and on one end of the

1195
00:54:16,180 --> 00:54:13,549
spectrum and on the other side it's

1196
00:54:20,019 --> 00:54:16,190
obviously you know an order or a deer or

1197
00:54:21,819 --> 00:54:20,029
a seal I didn't really strike me the

1198
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:21,829
importance of this photograph at first I

1199
00:54:26,319 --> 00:54:24,650
saw it oh and I blew it up on my own

1200
00:54:28,839 --> 00:54:26,329
computer I said are you sure it's a

1201
00:54:31,180 --> 00:54:28,849
co-write could be an order then I had

1202
00:54:32,829 --> 00:54:31,190
you know checked the pictures of co-op

1203
00:54:34,989 --> 00:54:32,839
it's obvious three seals they're just

1204
00:54:37,390 --> 00:54:34,999
playing around that's okay so on that

1205
00:54:38,739 --> 00:54:37,400
point of view I didn't really worry me

1206
00:54:40,509 --> 00:54:38,749
or impress me and I didn't think too

1207
00:54:43,089 --> 00:54:40,519
much more of of it but then upon

1208
00:54:45,700 --> 00:54:43,099
reflection I thought and it alludes to

1209
00:54:47,289 --> 00:54:45,710
what you say it's a wonderful example of

1210
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:47,299
how photographs down through the years

1211
00:54:52,749 --> 00:54:50,210
were almost undoubtedly of similar

1212
00:54:54,130 --> 00:54:52,759
things from Loch Ness but now the

1213
00:54:56,349 --> 00:54:54,140
photography is getting better and better

1214
00:54:58,180 --> 00:54:56,359
we can clearly see that of course it's

1215
00:55:01,059 --> 00:54:58,190
just some seals playing around i mean

1216
00:55:04,509 --> 00:55:01,069
this one you'd have to be a pretty

1217
00:55:05,710 --> 00:55:04,519
diehard paranormal enthusiasts to to

1218
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:05,720
think this is anything

1219
00:55:10,030 --> 00:55:08,330
then three or four seals just playing

1220
00:55:11,530 --> 00:55:10,040
around in the water but it's very

1221
00:55:14,650 --> 00:55:11,540
important because it shows us exactly

1222
00:55:16,300 --> 00:55:14,660
that this has no doubt being the case

1223
00:55:18,370 --> 00:55:16,310
for many years right i mean there's

1224
00:55:21,970 --> 00:55:18,380
that's exactly right there's no reason

1225
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:21,980
to assume that that you that you know

1226
00:55:26,620 --> 00:55:24,650
that the the previous photographs were

1227
00:55:28,359 --> 00:55:26,630
any different I mean it's things on the

1228
00:55:30,849 --> 00:55:28,369
water right it just happened to be that

1229
00:55:33,910 --> 00:55:30,859
the technology and the camera you know

1230
00:55:36,430 --> 00:55:33,920
that the digital I mean there's the

1231
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:36,440
technology for capturing visual images

1232
00:55:42,250 --> 00:55:39,680
has increased in quality exponentially

1233
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:42,260
in the past in you know five ten years

1234
00:55:45,970 --> 00:55:44,810
and so it's the same thing you know when

1235
00:55:48,099 --> 00:55:45,980
you when you look at for example the

1236
00:55:51,099 --> 00:55:48,109
evidence for Bigfoot right to this day

1237
00:55:52,750 --> 00:55:51,109
most Bigfoot believers will tell you

1238
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:52,760
that the best evidence for Bigfoot is

1239
00:56:00,220 --> 00:55:55,040
the patterson-gimlin film which was shot

1240
00:56:03,550 --> 00:56:00,230
in 1967 1967 that's that's how all this

1241
00:56:07,300 --> 00:56:03,560
film is and and you know and the irony

1242
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:07,310
is that if someone today shot that same

1243
00:56:10,750 --> 00:56:09,440
patterson-gimlin film that the blurry

1244
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:10,760
image of you know that the creature

1245
00:56:15,609 --> 00:56:12,890
going from right left and yeah in bluff

1246
00:56:18,130 --> 00:56:15,619
creek california if that was shot today

1247
00:56:19,690 --> 00:56:18,140
the quality of the cameras would be such

1248
00:56:22,089 --> 00:56:19,700
that people would recognize it

1249
00:56:24,250 --> 00:56:22,099
immediately it's a guy in a suit it

1250
00:56:27,490 --> 00:56:24,260
looks exactly like a guy in a suit and

1251
00:56:30,370 --> 00:56:27,500
and and but because so so it's it's a

1252
00:56:33,250 --> 00:56:30,380
mistake to sort of to misunderstand the

1253
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:33,260
poor quality of visual recording

1254
00:56:38,380 --> 00:56:36,290
technology from decades before and and

1255
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:38,390
and sort of conflate that with with oh

1256
00:56:42,490 --> 00:56:39,650
well back then there were mysterious

1257
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,500
things no back then the cat the

1258
00:56:45,970 --> 00:56:44,720
photography was worse that's why that's

1259
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:45,980
why we don't know what the hell it is

1260
00:56:51,310 --> 00:56:49,280
which is flying and wait it's causing an

1261
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:51,320
interesting effect in in the world of

1262
00:56:55,780 --> 00:56:53,330
the paranormal cryptozoology out are you

1263
00:56:57,460 --> 00:56:55,790
because again the the technology is

1264
00:57:00,579 --> 00:56:57,470
getting better and better every year and

1265
00:57:02,470 --> 00:57:00,589
so you know it raises really interesting

1266
00:57:04,810 --> 00:57:02,480
questions for we know what would a

1267
00:57:06,820 --> 00:57:04,820
plausible Bigfoot photo what would a

1268
00:57:11,380 --> 00:57:06,830
plausible messy photo look like in 10

1269
00:57:13,270 --> 00:57:11,390
years uh and because the I and my guess

1270
00:57:15,970 --> 00:57:13,280
is that the the so-called plausible

1271
00:57:18,579 --> 00:57:15,980
images organ or goodness sooner or later

1272
00:57:19,660 --> 00:57:18,589
vanish because there will be no

1273
00:57:21,460 --> 00:57:19,670
plausible images

1274
00:57:22,930 --> 00:57:21,470
because all the ones the quality of the

1275
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:22,940
cell phone videos and high-definition

1276
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:25,760
cameras are going to be such that people

1277
00:57:30,579 --> 00:57:27,650
know exactly what it is it can no longer

1278
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,589
be mistaken for a lake monster CMOS for

1279
00:57:34,270 --> 00:57:32,480
a Bigfoot because we now know what it is

1280
00:57:36,490 --> 00:57:34,280
and so there again it goes back to that

1281
00:57:40,089 --> 00:57:36,500
sort of Twilight Zone the ambiguity in

1282
00:57:41,530 --> 00:57:40,099
which mysteries of all are the golden

1283
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:41,540
year of the paranormal and may be

1284
00:57:45,849 --> 00:57:43,250
slipping behind us I don't know that'll

1285
00:57:47,740 --> 00:57:45,859
be a sad day will it oh I don't know I

1286
00:57:51,370 --> 00:57:47,750
like that old-fashioned stuff i love

1287
00:57:52,690 --> 00:57:51,380
reports of loch ness oh me too well then

1288
00:57:54,849 --> 00:57:52,700
i think one day you'll have to come out

1289
00:57:57,309 --> 00:57:54,859
here to visit australia new zealand and

1290
00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:57,319
we can I don't know we could hunt for

1291
00:58:02,049 --> 00:58:00,079
the Yowie I'd love to yeah we uh yeah

1292
00:58:04,329 --> 00:58:02,059
other monsters that apparently are

1293
00:58:06,250 --> 00:58:04,339
running around running around here in

1294
00:58:07,839 --> 00:58:06,260
Australia although strangely enough I i

1295
00:58:09,579 --> 00:58:07,849
I've noticed over the years when I

1296
00:58:11,500 --> 00:58:09,589
another skeptics turn up the monsters

1297
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:11,510
seem to run away you scare them Richard

1298
00:58:16,059 --> 00:58:14,000
you scare them and if people want to

1299
00:58:18,940 --> 00:58:16,069
check your website out Ben I think it's

1300
00:58:21,730 --> 00:58:18,950
just Benjamin Radford com it is exactly

1301
00:58:23,740 --> 00:58:21,740
although i would say it in in an

1302
00:58:26,170 --> 00:58:23,750
American accent but it works you the way

1303
00:58:28,990 --> 00:58:26,180
whatever Australian English or American

1304
00:58:31,210 --> 00:58:29,000
English is just it's all the same oddly

1305
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:31,220
enough it still works and Redford all

1306
00:58:35,470 --> 00:58:32,690
the way from Albuquerque New Mexico

1307
00:58:47,410 --> 00:58:35,480
thank you very much great thanks to be

1308
00:58:55,790 --> 00:58:52,309
hey Heidi oh hi Joe hi Heidi oh hi

1309
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:55,800
Maynard hi Maynard oh hi Joe nice day in

1310
00:59:02,870 --> 00:58:59,040
this park yeah yes great weather oh look

1311
00:59:05,450 --> 00:59:02,880
a unicorn a unicorn there are no such

1312
00:59:08,660 --> 00:59:05,460
things as unicorns silly yes there are

1313
00:59:11,150 --> 00:59:08,670
no there isn't hey ladies what are you

1314
00:59:14,599 --> 00:59:11,160
arguing about Joe thinks unicorns are

1315
00:59:18,109 --> 00:59:14,609
real they fo are let's look this up in

1316
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:18,119
the skeptics dictionary the word how can

1317
00:59:22,700 --> 00:59:20,400
we do that in this park there are no

1318
00:59:25,010 --> 00:59:22,710
computers here you ladies probably don't

1319
00:59:28,099 --> 00:59:25,020
know about the skeptics dictionary app

1320
00:59:31,220 --> 00:59:28,109
available now for iPhone iPad and iPod

1321
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:31,230
touch in the App Store yeah we do we've

1322
00:59:37,550 --> 00:59:33,210
been listening to the skeptic zone for

1323
00:59:39,740 --> 00:59:37,560
years you know yes ok the app lets you

1324
00:59:43,460 --> 00:59:39,750
access all the great skeptics dictionary

1325
00:59:46,309 --> 00:59:43,470
articles when you're on the go yeah let

1326
00:59:49,220 --> 00:59:46,319
me look up unicorns oh cool Heidi

1327
00:59:51,710 --> 00:59:49,230
prepare to be proven wrong it says here

1328
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:51,720
the Unicorn is a creature from fables

1329
00:59:56,569 --> 00:59:55,050
aha actually I see now that someone just

1330
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:56,579
dumped their ice cream cone on that

1331
01:00:01,609 --> 00:59:59,280
horse's head Thanks yep attention their

1332
01:00:13,140 --> 01:00:01,619
iphone that that's just some guy in his

1333
01:00:18,269 --> 01:00:15,839
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1334
01:00:21,180 --> 01:00:18,279
zone and bang you to sharon hill and Ben

1335
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:21,190
Radford for taking part this week now

1336
01:00:26,670 --> 01:00:23,130
here's a few more little notes before we

1337
01:00:29,579 --> 01:00:26,680
sign out off and away from the skeptic

1338
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:29,589
zone those people in Australia if you

1339
01:00:36,299 --> 01:00:32,640
have not seen the new movie spin out

1340
01:00:40,620 --> 01:00:36,309
which is currently in wide release it's

1341
01:00:43,289 --> 01:00:40,630
a lot of fun I was a very lucky I went

1342
01:00:46,289 --> 01:00:43,299
to see a special preview last week of

1343
01:00:49,349 --> 01:00:46,299
spin up here in Sydney which was a lot

1344
01:00:51,210 --> 01:00:49,359
of fun Maynard was there too doing lots

1345
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:51,220
of interviews as main out would a big

1346
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:52,960
thank you to our Tim Ferguson the

1347
01:00:58,980 --> 01:00:54,880
director the co-director now spin out

1348
01:01:00,930 --> 01:00:58,990
for having me come along and much

1349
01:01:03,630 --> 01:01:00,940
appreciated and if you have seen the

1350
01:01:07,170 --> 01:01:03,640
movie why not head over to Maynard com

1351
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:07,180
dot for a special podcast you'll see

1352
01:01:12,660 --> 01:01:10,450
there behind the scenes of spin out

1353
01:01:14,750 --> 01:01:12,670
Maynard spent some time on the set as

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01:01:17,279 --> 01:01:14,760
they were filming he interviews the

1355
01:01:20,670 --> 01:01:17,289
director the co-director Tim Ferguson

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01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:20,680
and many of the stars of the movie check

1357
01:01:27,210 --> 01:01:23,650
it out Maynard calm got a you for the

1358
01:01:30,660 --> 01:01:27,220
behind the scenes podcast and as I've

1359
01:01:32,970 --> 01:01:30,670
mentioned before our full disclosure I'm

1360
01:01:34,620 --> 01:01:32,980
not getting any special kickbacks or

1361
01:01:38,519 --> 01:01:34,630
deals for mentioning this movie it's

1362
01:01:40,769 --> 01:01:38,529
just nice to help out a friend and also

1363
01:01:43,049 --> 01:01:40,779
I like to support the local film and TV

1364
01:01:45,809 --> 01:01:43,059
industry because I do part time work in

1365
01:01:47,549 --> 01:01:45,819
it from time to time in fact those

1366
01:01:49,859 --> 01:01:47,559
people in Australia if you saw the first

1367
01:01:52,589 --> 01:01:49,869
episode of the new TV series doctor

1368
01:01:55,349 --> 01:01:52,599
doctor right at the beginning of the

1369
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:55,359
show there was a strange and the CZ

1370
01:02:00,359 --> 01:01:57,970
ologist doing an operation with big

1371
01:02:03,089 --> 01:02:00,369
glasses well that was me now here's some

1372
01:02:05,519 --> 01:02:03,099
exciting news that will be of interest

1373
01:02:07,710 --> 01:02:05,529
if you're in New Zealand the New Zealand

1374
01:02:10,289 --> 01:02:07,720
skeptics have a convention coming up the

1375
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:10,299
second to the fourth of December in

1376
01:02:14,599 --> 01:02:12,490
beautiful Queenstown for more

1377
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:14,609
information visit conference dot

1378
01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:19,450
skeptics dot n Z and I'm very lucky

1379
01:02:24,750 --> 01:02:22,720
indeed very fortunate I'll be a one of

1380
01:02:26,010 --> 01:02:24,760
the guest speakers at the convention

1381
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:26,020
looking forward to that

1382
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:28,450
enormously it'll be nice to bump into

1383
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:30,640
some old friends including Susan ger

1384
01:02:35,610 --> 01:02:33,760
Beck who has appeared on the skeptic

1385
01:02:37,620 --> 01:02:35,620
zone from time to time well I'm sure

1386
01:02:39,090 --> 01:02:37,630
I'll be talking about this conference a

1387
01:02:41,010 --> 01:02:39,100
bit more over the next few months and

1388
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:41,020
hopefully interviewing some of the

1389
01:02:46,830 --> 01:02:43,570
people from New Zealand the New Zealand

1390
01:02:50,190 --> 01:02:46,840
skeptics all about it if you are in New

1391
01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:50,200
Zealand or if you know people in New

1392
01:02:55,590 --> 01:02:52,720
Zealand some of your new zealand

1393
01:03:00,480 --> 01:02:55,600
facebook friends point them towards

1394
01:03:02,010 --> 01:03:00,490
conference dot skeptics NZ and i'm sure

1395
01:03:03,870 --> 01:03:02,020
we'll have a lot of fun i'm going to be

1396
01:03:05,970 --> 01:03:03,880
bringing some divining rods and we're

1397
01:03:09,780 --> 01:03:05,980
going to be doing some divining tests

1398
01:03:13,230 --> 01:03:09,790
and stuff like that i think i think my

1399
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:13,240
talk is going to be around the secrets

1400
01:03:18,020 --> 01:03:14,610
of the psychics or something like that

1401
01:03:20,940 --> 01:03:18,030
something like that more news about that

1402
01:03:25,500 --> 01:03:20,950
before long and lastly thank you once

1403
01:03:27,350 --> 01:03:25,510
again to those generous people who show

1404
01:03:31,350 --> 01:03:27,360
their support to the skeptic zone by

1405
01:03:34,650 --> 01:03:31,360
their monthly or weekly donations via

1406
01:03:38,730 --> 01:03:34,660
paypal or via patreon then you can sort

1407
01:03:40,350 --> 01:03:38,740
all that out at skeptic zone TV well

1408
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:40,360
somebody has to buy may not all those

1409
01:03:44,850 --> 01:03:42,970
cups of coffee and tea but for this week

1410
01:03:51,180 --> 01:03:44,860
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1411
01:03:52,820 --> 01:03:51,190
from Sydney Australia you've been

1412
01:03:56,340 --> 01:03:52,830
listening to the skeptics own podcast

1413
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:56,350
visit our website at wwc a petting zoo

1414
01:04:03,300 --> 01:03:59,440
TV for contacts and archive of all

1415
01:04:05,580 --> 01:04:03,310
episodes since 2008 and our online store

1416
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:05,590
please support the skeptic zone by

1417
01:04:11,310 --> 01:04:08,310
following us on twitter at skeptic zone

1418
01:04:14,370 --> 01:04:11,320
liking us on facebook and leaving a

1419
01:04:17,250 --> 01:04:14,380
review on iTunes you can also show your

1420
01:04:20,700 --> 01:04:17,260
support by subscribing via paypal for as

1421
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:20,710
little as 99 cents a week the skeptic

1422
01:04:24,750 --> 01:04:23,050
zone is an independent production the

1423
01:04:26,850 --> 01:04:24,760
views and opinions expressed on the

1424
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:26,860
skeptic zone and not necessarily those

1425
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:29,050
of Australian skeptic League or any

1426
01:04:42,050 --> 01:04:40,520
okay go into a quick edit excuse me from

1427
01:04:44,300 --> 01:04:42,060
in it I got to kick the two cats out

1428
01:04:48,140 --> 01:04:44,310
they've just walked in the climbing over

1429
01:05:03,860 --> 01:04:48,150
okay you two gone you out app not coming

1430
01:05:05,750 --> 01:05:03,870
out alright feed you later you're lovely

1431
01:05:08,900 --> 01:05:05,760
but they decided to walk into the studio